The webcomics blog about webcomics

Awesome Things

Oh, Achewood, when will I ever learn to suss out your story rhythms at the beginning of terribly important arcs? It started so ordinary (for you, at least): Ray trying to make conversation with Pat, Pat being a dick, and Ray upping the ante. Before you know it, Philippe was rocking the shades and bling and Ray was contemplating betrayal most foul.

The usual insanity followed, but then a sudden turn: Philippe could go home again, and frighteningly quickly, he was on his way. And since then, it’s been one heartbreak after another for our little otter-man. This is why Chris Onstad is the best at character. This is why we read.

  • Brand new news in the past couple hours: Webcomics Dot Com members now have a negotiated 10% discount with Transcontinental. Given that many creators can’t pay their printer bills until they’ve sold several thousand dollars of pre-orders, that has the potential to far outweigh the $30/year subscription fee that WDC charges.

    Transcon (as the cool kids call it) has printed a large number of the webcomics collections on the shelf behind me (working from home rules), and to my knowledge, hasn’t been involved in any of the screw-the-creator incidents (cough, the former Quebecor) that have reportedly plagued self-publishers. In fact, the only non-positive thing I can find on Transcon is that their parent company’s website contains this nugget of joy:

    Optimized for/Optimisé pour Internet Explorer 5 | 800 x 600

    Nobody’s perfect. But kudos to Brad Guigar on his continuing quest to turn a simple website into something like a professional society. Even if he does seem to think that my wrists are the same size as my neck.

  • Okay, background: Ken Smith, over at The Comics Journal (online), has been doing some really heavy writing under titles like “Science” and “Rationality” as the Mystical Cult of Chance, which I’m not sure relates to comics per se, but there you go. He’s in the midst of a massive ninepart philosophical dive entitled The Cave of False Consciousness (isn’t that where Luke Skywalker confronted Vader in a dream?), which posits … actually, I’m not quite sure. I went to nerd school and thus my education was heavy on simple, declarative sentences; as run-on as I can be on this page, I still can’t wrap my head around Smith’s central thesis (except perhaps: I am smarter than you).

    Fortunately, I don’t have to. Shaenon Garrity has been condensing down Smith’s updates (starting with number V of IX) into single-page comic summaries. She’s channeling Larry Gonick pretty effectively, reducing vast swathes of verbiage to simple panels, and reducing Smith’s arguments to the essential core. Consider her intro to summary VI of IX:

    Previously in Ken Smith comics, Ego tromped all over everything. Today I adapt the latest chapter of Smith’s ongoing philosophical polemic and use the phrase “sucks balls” a lot.

    Garrity should be encouraged to do this more — she’s got a real talent for deflating overly-dense nonsense, and anybody who disputes that she is Radness Queen West of the Rockies sucks balls.

All This And A Book On The Way

It’s just really hit me how appropriate that Dunning Kruger Solutions, Ltd serves as studio space for both (Latin Heartthrob) Aaron Diaz and Meredith Gran, seeing as how both of them run their comics on a You’ll get a big-ass update when it’s ready schedule. In most cases (for those benighted souls that can’t bother themselves to click on the RSS feed button), having an irregular update would be death to sustaining an audience, but Diaz and Gran manage to make it feel like an event.

All of which is a slightly roundabout way of pointing out that Octopus Pie has updated, with 15 pages jam-packed with goodness. This one’s more than a little melancholy for Eve, gives background utility player Gwen some character development, and is chock-full of Gran’s best work.

Check out page one, where we observe Our Heroine and her boyfriend from within a storefront, rendering everything about them (even their text balloons) grey from the glass. Only in Gran’s New York could a Chuck E. Cheese knockoff have an Apartment Squatter fun zone and animatronic house band that appears to feature a Rock Lobster.

As usual, Gran’s master of posture and expression renders even silent pages full of meaning and story progression, and even the most heartbreaking scenes have to end with a gag.

  • Speaking of ‘pusses, I should note that Mocktopus hit 100 updates. Creator Max Huffman was the youngest webcomicker of note until Malachai Nicolle burst on the scene. Although since Malachai’s part of a writer/artist combo with his brother, it’s maybe worthwhile to note that their average age (17.5) is still greater that Huffman’s (16), so that’s all right.
  • Speaking of things that are all right, the final Scary Go Round book is up for pre-order. I’ve been so invested in Bad Machinëry that I’d nearly forgotten my attachment to Esther, Sarah, The Boy, and the other denizens of Tackleford’s secondary education system, yet there they are jauntily strolling down the lane (slouching down the lane in the case of future van-having man Carrot). As an added bonus, pre-orders will include a minicomic detailing how the heck Erin Winters (erased from memory until she reappeared as a journalist) escaped from Hell.

Stumped

For those of you in the Portland area, Comics Month (as declared by Mayor Hunky) is in full swing, and that means it’s nearly time for the Stumptown Comics Fest to get under way. The exhibitor list may now be cross referenced against a map, and there’s only a few zillion webcomickers gonna be there.

  • Among the attendees (“Guest”, if you wanna be pedantic, presumably “of Honor”) will be Hope Larson, whom some of you may be able to see at the West Coast iteration of Drink and Draw Like a Lady (with props to Dylan Meconis for local organization and Hurricane Erika for the poster — if you see Erika, ask her to do a shot in honor of me pre-ordering her book).
  • While there, you might want to congratulate Larson for her latest news. As surely all have heard by now, she’ll be adapting Madeleine L’Engle’s classic of YA SF, A Wrinkle in Time as a graphic novel. This is terrific news, as I can’t imagine anybody less talented than Larson able to tackle a book that’s so widely read, so intensely beloved, and which contains concepts and characters that are so difficult to visualize, forcing every reader to come up with mental images that are surely unlike anybody else’s.

    Handled poorly, everybody that picks up the book would protest That’s not what travelling through a tesseract/Mrs Which/IT looks like!, but I have every expectation that Larson will rise to the challenge and produce something her own, yet recognizably familiar to all and sundry.

    Still doubting? Consider that every work that Larson has done has somehow been stronger than the previous. If, a few months ago, I thought that Larson had reached a peak of visual storytelling with Mercury, I previously thought the same of Chiggers, and Gray Horses, and Salamander Dream. True, adaptation is a different kind of beast, but I’m hopeful.

  • Speaking of Mercury, might it be possible that one of you creative types could ensure that it’s properly considered for a Harvey Award? Nominations (from anybody who writes, draws, inks, letters, colors, designs, edits, or otherwise makes comics) remain open until the 23rd of April, so hop to it. While I’m on the topic, any number of people over there to the right are also probably deserving of your nomination.
  • Finally, this: having previously been made into an opera, Dinosaur Comics (which sometimes gets no love from the arbiters of taste) has now crossed over into the ultimate of musical expressions: a marching band routine via the justly-famed¹ (and slightly deranged) Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band.

_______________
¹ It wasn’t me; I was still in high school and can’t even play the trombone.

Whoa Damn

Okay, who’s up for something absolutely friggin’ beautiful today? The first Abominable Charles Christopher book is up for pre-order, leading to a few thoughts in no particular order:

  • Dang, that’s pretty
  • Via Kerschl’s twitter, a peek at the gatefold from the back of the book
  • Rassa-frassin’ exchange rate parity — I remember when pricing in Canadian dollars meant a significantly smaller number in ‘Merican bucks
  • Along those lines, PayPal apparently believes that today’s exchange rate is approximately 2.5% less favorable than it actually is; if you feel like trying to time your purchase to daily fluctuations (or would rather let your credit card company take the skim instead of PayPal), there’s an option that allows we Staties to charge the purchase in Canadian

In other news …

  • Robert Tracy is a busy dude. Over at Webcomics Community, there’s what might be the first attempt to determine from an actual survey whether or not shaking hands at a con is a vector for disease. Given the lack of reported outbreaks from PAX East (thanks to the semi-official no-handshake policy) despite an outbreak of poop disease, and given some anecdotal reports that some who attended last weekend’s MoCCA Art Fest (which had no such prohibition) are feeling under-the-weather heading into this weekend’s C2E2, the answer can’t come soon enough.

    Then on top of that, Tracy posted a big-damn-interview with Chris Crosby yesterday — lot of stuff there, worth reading through to understand one of the long runners of webcomics.

  • Another guy doing a lot of good for the community? Frumph (or Philip M. Hofer if you’re his mom). Spontaneous tributes to his skills flow like water, and he’s just done a rebuild of Shortpacked! that shows exactly how powerful the WordPress/ComicPress combo is. What made me really want to point out his work, though, is my recent experience loading that very feature-rich Shortpacked homepage on my phone — fast, clean, acting pretty much like on my desktop. I just figured it was time for a little Frumph-love (most places, you gotta pay extra for the Frumph-love).
  • Recognition achieved: Todd Allen has been inducted into the Mystery Writers of America for his webcomic, Division and Rush:

    Oh, don’t be so shocked. It’s not like I’m the first. Tim Broderick’s not just a member, he’s VP of the Mid-West chapter and he’s best known for his Odd Jobs webcomic. You can even get the collected print edition of Odd Jobs at the Chicago Public Library. (I did.) I also somehow doubt that Dick Tracy, Ms. Tree or Road to Perdition were held against Max Allan Collins, even if Collins was already an accomplished novelist prior to his comics work.

    Moral of the story: times are changing and definitions of professional credentials are changing. The Mystery Writers of America accept that professional writing is professional writing, be it prose, a movie/television script or a comic strip. And it’s an affirming thing to be recognized by your higher profile peers and be told “yes, you’re a professional just like us.”

  • Finally, and only peripherally related to webcomics, this from the mailbag … JG Brin attempts the impossible:

    [A]bout a week or so ago, you linked to David Morgan-Mar’s post where he gave his views on the board game Monopoly. Well, I’ve waited for nigh on a half-fortnight for someone in the webcomics world to provide a rebuttal, but to no avail. I fear the responsibility has landed on me. While I don’t feel worthy, I’ve nevertheless taken a shot at it, in the hopes of defending the virtue of my favorite board game.

  • From my reading, Brin likes those aspects of Monopoly that most (right-thinking) people loathe about the “game”, but let it never be said that we at Fleen won’t give full time to contrary views. Monopoly-haters, meet your principled opposition.

Success! And Books!


So the MoCCA Art Fest was held over the weekend, and at the end of it, I think everybody had a collective sigh of relief. The heat and organizational problems that plagued last years show didn’t recur. The crowds moved easily and, from the webcomics folks I spoke to, were eager to snap up stuff. The show was a success, and much fun was had, and I got a bunch of stuff. Let’s recap, shall we?

  • For me, one of the big thrills was meeting people that I hadn’t before — Jess Fink, Yuko Ota & Ananth Panagariya, Dorothy Gambrell were awesome to make the acquaintance of (whoo, tortured syntax, but I think you take my meaning), and only after I’d left did I realize that I’d missed meeting Andrew Hussie — dang. I also enjoyed meeting more of the crew from :01 Books, because I think they’re putting out the best line of graphic novels in existence right now — thanks to Gina Gagliano for putting me on their distribution list, and to Colleen AF Venable for designing such good-looking books.
  • Speaking of Ms Venable, she’s got her own book out now — Hamster & Cheese, the first of a series of six kids books starring a reluctant guinea pig PI, and illustrated by the mightily talented Stephanie Yue. I learned a lot about snakes from the notes in the back of the book, including the following critical information:

    If snakes slowly dissolve their food, does this mean they don’t poop? Nope! Snakes poop. They don’t poop very often. When they do — how can I say this nicely? It’s a bit watery. [emphasis original]

    Not only informative, Hamster & Cheese is likely the best kids book of the show in a particular category; I don’t know if publishers have a fancy words for this, but H&C is laid out more like a short graphic novel than anything — panels, word balloons, the works.

  • For traditional kids book (whole-page illustrations, text narrating the events), you’d have to go with the very handsome Golden Books tribute, Tigerbuttah by Beck Dreistadt & Frank Gibson. Full disclosure: I was (am?) a Kickstarter supporter of this book, so assume that I was inclined to like it anway. Fact of the matter is, reading this thing is a kick in the childhood nostalgia gland — pokey little puppies and engines that could start swirling in your brain just holding this thing, and seeing the way that the ink looks on the paper stock would drag anybody back to those first experiences of reading on your very own. This book is a marvel, plain and simple, and anybody in the creative industries with any measurable amount of brain should be driving a dumptruck full of money up to Frank & Becky’s front door.
  • Weirdly enough, I got a very similar reaction from reading David McGuire’s The 12 Labours of Gastrophobia, even though it could hardly be more different that Tigerbuttah; I think it’s the smell, actually — the aroma of ink and paper is very reminiscent of the books I had as a kid, and the use of white paper with red and black inks also reminds me of the limited color palettes that were the hallmark of books for so very long.

    More than merely dredging out 35 year old memories, McGuire’s choice of color serves him very well, as it makes the entire book look like it could have been drawn on amphorae. As a bonus, there’s an index in the back so you can see which pages were originally animated online, or where webcomics cameos are to be found. He’s also done the best job I’ve ever seen presenting a back-cover bar code.

  • Elsewhere, Aaron Diaz had the haunted look of a man that didn’t get nearly enough food or bathroom breaks, mixed with the happy realization that it was because he was swamped with fans wanting his wares. His 2010 sketchbook offers a good look at his (previously seen on Twitter) inspired-by-Tolkien speed paintings (each featuring dominant colors that really resonate emotionally), and news that Dresden Codak will feature more of the Tokamak twins gladdens my heart.
  • Just across the aisle, Hope Larson‘s newly-released Mercury was going great guns, and Box Brown‘s Everything Dies #1 & #2 offered up a primer on a pretty wide range of metaphysical beliefs. Jon Rosenberg had an advanced copy of his forthcoming third volume of Goats, which featured the funniest foreword I’ve ever read, courtesy of Lore Sjöberg.
  • To all of this one may add the always-delightful presences of (in no particular order) Chris Yates, Ryan North, Raina Telgemeier & Dave Roman (from whom, we now know, there will not be a second volume of X-Men: Misfits, victim of an expired license), Chris Hastings & Carly Monardo (the latter now in a starring role in the new print from Bernie Hou), R Stevens, Sam Brown, Magnolia Porter, Andy Bell, David Malki !, Scott C, Danielle Corsetto (not showing, just wandering the floor and enjoying herself), Kate Beaton, Jeph Jacques (counting the days until C2E2 is done and he can bring home his new dog), various NERDS, Jeff Rowland (who put together the new Axe Cop store at TopatoCo with his laptop and phone on the ride to New York because we are living in the goddamned future), Jen Babcock (who recently did a talk at The Met pointing out that a form of ancient Egyptian popular art was essentially comics in general and Five Card Nancy in particular) and generally more talent than one can shake a stick at, which is why I’m certain that I’ve forgotten half the names I meant to include here, because I wasn’t writing things down. Mea culpa.

Additional photos: My “beards & moustaches” sketchbook grows ever closer to full, with a gorgeous addition from Hope Larson; Dave Roman does the world’s first SFW moustache ride; Kimiko Ross discovers new feelings; a T-Rex grows his beard long enough to stroke with his tiny arms; teenage Raina finds something worse than headgear; and Chester 5000 XYV sprouts a new attachment.

Book!

Okay, it’s not BOAT!, but what is? There are some book pre-orders that you might want to take note of.

  • Little Dee is about to end (and you really must excuse me, as I appear to have somthing in my eye), and that means that the last Little Dee collection will shortly make it to press. Pre-orders on Little Dee Volume 4 are up, at the bargain price of $15 (+ $5 S/H to North America, $15 to the rest of the world), complete with Chris Baldwin’s autograph.
  • Erika Moen recently concluded DAR (but then stepping up to do a Penny Arcade guest strip, which wanged her site), which means it’s time for the last print collection of that hybrid of the personal and the public. DAR! A Super Girly Top Secret Comic Diary Volume Two (complete with tentacles!) contains the very earliest and very last strips from the webcomic, and is up for your pre-ordering pleasure for $15, or $20 with customization (plus the ubiquitous shipping and handling).
  • Last year at this time, Dylan Meconis was putting together the Bite Me! print collection; this year, it’s the first book of the companion story, Family Man. Chapters one and two are up for pre-order in a variety of packages, from book only, to book + additional swag, to book + swag + original artwork, to all of the above + a hand-tooled leather-bound copy of the book, all Bible-style. Prices start at $20 and go up from there (plus, yet again, shipping and/or handling).
  • No pre-order yet, but Scott C grabbed my interest this morning:

    I’m working on a zombie kids book. I forget if I mentioned it.

    I am so there, with or without a kid. Actually, screw the kids, they can’t have my copy.

  • Book-oriented, at the very least: the Hugo Awards recognize the very best in speculative fictions, and they continue to give respect to the webcomics community. Nominated for stories not yet collected in book form, both Girl Genius (Phil & Kaja Foglio) and Schlock Mercenary (Howard Tayler) have been honored in the category of Best Graphic Story (against some guys named “Gaiman” and “Willingham” … never heard of ’em).

    Given that the awards will be made at the World Science Fiction Convention (which this year will be in Melbourne), I expect that webcomics fans Down Under may have a rare chance to meet some creators on their home turf. Do you love Girl Genius and/or Schlock Mercenary? Drop a line to the appropriate person and let ’em know that since they’ll be on the right continent and all, a signing appearance would be awesome.

Did I Miss The Memo?

Because it’s apparently Webcomics Book Week; the due to release list for tomorrow in your local comic shop contains a half-dozen items, and I may have missed some. Shall we run down the list?

  • Dark Horse is dropping Wondermark‘s third volume (Dapper Caps & Pedal-Copters along with Graham Anable’s The Book of Grickle (I know that page says 7 April, but if Midtown Comics says it’s 24 March, then by Darwin it’s 24 March). Not from Dark Horse, but worth mentioning: Gene Yang‘s got Animal Crackers, a reprint of Gordon Yamamoto and Loyola Chin, with a new story, from Slave Labor.

    Not done yet, Bunky. Tom Siddell’s second Gunnerkrigg Court collection, Research is due, in a much more timely fashion than the first. Zuda brings The Night Owls by the Timonys (again, Midtown says it drops tomorrow), and PvP‘s seventh collection appears to be getting back into release channels.

    People, I am working on a budget here.

  • Speaking of PvP, Scott Kurtz would like you to know:

    I guess it’s official. I’m MCing the Harvey’s again this year. Also, Harvey Award nominations are now open.

  • Still on books, the big-publisher edition of Meredith Gran’s Octopus Pie, There Are No Stars In Brookyn, is up for pre-order. I could put up a link to Amazon or some other big retailer for that book (due 22 June), but let’s let Mer tell you herself:

    I’m offering the book for sale on this site. If you want your book signed or personalized, this is the only place to get it. All pre-ordered books are signed by me for FREE! You’ll also get 2 super exclusive 1? mystery buttons with every order. Buying it from me directly ensures a portion of the sale goes to me.

    Many online retailers are offering pre-sale discounts, which may be a good option if you’re strapped for cash or a member at these stores.

    Can I be straight with you for a moment?

    This is a crucial time in the success of Octopus Pie. The sales of this book will do a lot to determine whether or not future books can be made. If you love the comic, but have never ordered OP merch before, this is a fantastic way to show your support. Plus you’ll be getting an awesome signed book out of it! [emphasis original]

    Guys, Meredith is the real deal. Her success with this book (both her own sales, and in the broader market) will probably become a significant data point as publishers try to decide how much it’s worth dealing with independent creators. The groundswell of support that she (and others like Raina Telgemeier, Hope Larson, Kazu Kibuishi, Kean Soo, and others) have built will set the stage for the next couple of decades of corporate decisions. I don’t know about you, but I’d kind of like the next couple of decades to be filled with awesome comics easily available to me, so I’m pre-ordering on that basis, and not because I’m an obsessive completist (although let’s be frank, I am an obsessive completist). Join me, won’t you?

  • Still books: Joey Comeau‘s latest prose book, One Bloody Thing After Another, is due for release shortly, and to celebrate he’s release new or missing-from-the-net stories. The first one is here.
  • Finally, not books: Blind Ferrett is hiring, both in Montréal and away. Details here.

You Know What? Give Me The Old Frantic System Back

Okay, let’s review the facts: By 12:06pm EDT yesterday, I was already emailing people about how easy the SDCC hotel registration process was. By 12:06pm EDT today, I have heard exactly squat from them about my room reservation, and I gather I’m not the only person in this situation. Ain’t nothing in my spam folders, the same email address successfully delivered information from Travel Providers in prior years, and I am becoming annoyed. I also note that the hotel page seems to have reverted to the same system used in prior years; make of that what you will. Let’s move on to happier things.

  • High volume demand for limited product: check. Actually sending an email acknowledging order: check. History of making good on what the email says you will supply? Check. I look forward to my Fat Pony Figurine from TopatoCo; in an alternate dimension where merchandise is handled by the SDCC hotel people, I will die of old age while still waiting to find out if I get one or not.
  • Excellent idea from Jennie Breeden: Oglaf [NSFW] cosplay at Dragon*Con.
  • This was possibly an overshare on the part of Danielle Corsetto, but man was it funny. Also: Angela Melick, keeping it polite.
  • Hell. Yes.:

    Bryan Lee O’Malley’s SCOTT PILGRIM VOL. 6: SCOTT PILGRIM’S FINEST HOUR, is published by Oni Press and features 248 pages of evil-ex butt-kicking in the easily digestible digest format for the low, low price of $11.99. Available at your local comic shop or bookstore Tuesday, July 20th, 2010.

Epicness

On any other day, the newly-revealed poster for Scott Pilgrim vs The World (“An epic of epic epicness”) would get pride of place up top, but this isn’t any other day. This is the day (well, okay, last night) that John Keogh, after many teasers, has dropped the last Lucid TV on us, and it’s a masterpiece. Last one to leave Jim Belushi Memorial Hospitul, turn out the lights. And may I note that the flashing logo on the side of JBMH will always remind me of one of Chuck Jones’s better sight gags.

  • In other news, I’ve been meaning to mention this for a couple days now — Jim Zubkavich has been responsible for a lot of projects with his UDON Entertainment studiomates, and as of a week ago, that includes a new mini-series that is a) licensed from b) a fighting video game series that c) I’ve never played. I still enjoyed the hell out of it, because as Chris Sims rightly notes, You can never have too many ninjas.
  • Last up, a philosophical diversion. Anonymous (as you will see in a moment) writes:

    Hello Gary,

    So recently I’ve been trying to get under control the large (for me) amount of hits one would get when they google my name, for a couple of reasons, mostly being the fact that they were created during an adolescent time of my life (my adolescence) and would like them to be kind of, well, removed. With the internet being like an infinite attic that everyone can shuffle through I would like my presence to be something more conscious, if you know what I mean. Could you please take a few seconds out of your day and just delete my last name ([redacted] from [redacted]) from the post copied below? I would be most grateful!

    [link redacted]

    Thank you!
    -[redacted]

    This is actually a bit of a dilemma for me — while it would be trivially easy to remove one word from one post, we at Fleen have had a long history of not retroactively de-publishing content. No matter how stupid, abusive, or misinformed the content (and that’s from us; the comment threads can get downright evil), it stays up because it’s a record of what actually took place. Corrections have been logged, of course (very minor things like typos and bad punctuation without notice; more weighty things like rewordings or retractions via strikethrough), but no comment or posting has ever been taken down.

    There is one caveat to that last statement, actually. At the height of the Todd Goldman Shitstorm of Aught-Seven, with lawsuit threats a-flying, one poster contacted me with a request that a comment be deleted because he’d submitted it from work, and was afraid if the lawyerin’ got out of hand, his employer might terminate him. I did so, and he resubmitted the same comment from his home computer, so the net effect was zero (aside from the chill in the air that expressing an opinion can be dealt with so harshly).

    Anonymous’s request reminds me a lolt of the story of “Peter”, who legally changed his identity to get away from Google searches; I take it as a given that the words and works that we craft should be things we are willing to stand behind, but must we be tagged with associations forever? I also take it as a given that everybody — every. body. — was an idiot as a teenage for instance (you really can’t help it, what with the hormones and the brain not being all the way cooked). Anybody with a smidge of self-awareness looks back on those years and slowly shakes their head with a muttered comment thanking [insert thankable entity] that they aren’t like that anymore. Heck, I find the process of growing, changing, and maturing (kicking and screaming all the way) means that any random interval of the past, from last week to third grade, is likely to leave me wondering how I could be such a dick back then and I hope I’m not like that now. So the line about an adolescent time of my life rings true for me.

    Ultimately, the full identity of Anonymous isn’t part of the story — not like a more prominent figure would be. And while the no-depublishing rule was something I set in stone for myself when Fleen started in 2005, if we are to grow, change, and mature, then we must be willing to revisit our ironclad beliefs as situations and circumstances warrant. Request granted, and we’ll take such considerations under advisement in the future.

Everybody I Know Is In Seattle

Well, me and my dog will just have to have fun by ourselves. So there.